Contraction fascics in muscle bet thumb and index finger?

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Contraction fascics in muscle bet thumb and index finger?

Postby fbandersnatch on September 14th, 2005, 2:48 pm

Does anyone out there have contraction fascics of the muscle on the back of the hand between the thumb and index finger? If I start to make a circle from my right index finger and thumb, I get fine fascics (rippling) in the muscle between the two. I can't feel them, but I can see them. I'm very worried because this muscle seems a bit smaller than the corresponding muscle on my left hand, and I'm right handed. When I make a "hard" circle of thumb and index finger, the muscle lump on the back of my hand is larger and more pronounced on my left than my right. The fascics are only there during partial contraction, not full strength or at rest. Also, they don't appear in a similar situation on the left.

Anyone else get this kind of fasics?
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Postby Floater on September 14th, 2005, 4:53 pm

yes .. very common.. fascics can come in all sizes and shapes forms.. visible and non visible;)
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Postby migolivas on September 14th, 2005, 5:22 pm

I'm not sure, but I think I may have the same thing.

If I hold my right hand / thumb in a certain way, I can make those muscles quiver quite easily. It does sort of look like the muscles are "rippling". I can't seem to be able to duplicate it with my left hand either.

Are there types of twitches supposed to be worse than the random fascics?
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Postby fbandersnatch on September 14th, 2005, 5:39 pm

migolivas,

Given the number of similarities between our conditions, I wonder if there's not something else going on. The small muscles on the back of the hand are innervated by the ulnar nerve (motor only, not sensory AFAIK). I've had pain in my elbow and pinky side of the wrist (typical for ulnar nerve entrapment), and ulnar nerve entrapment can cause real (not just perceived) weakness in the fine muscles of the hand. Perhaps I should pursue that more vigorously with my neuro - he told me NCV was fine in that nerve. I've been told by a neurosurgeon friend (who's never examined me) that ulnar nerve entrapment only shows up on NCV / EMG about half of the time.
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Postby migolivas on September 15th, 2005, 9:33 am

I guess I need to go see the neuro after all.

So far, I have only been to see a GP about two months ago. He said he saw ZERO evidence of weakness, wasting, or any serious disease and didn't feel a neuro visit was appropriate particularly since my fascics decreased considerably after my stress levels lowered.

Since that visit, I have been gradually feeling better about things. My twitches have been reduced by about 90%, and I am very encouraged that I have noticed zero weakness.

However, I had no idea contraction fascics were such a bad sign. Since I can apparently cause them in my dominant hand and not the other, and since the palm of that hand is more creased and less developed than my left, it seems like it might be a good idea for me to get further testing to see if there is anything actually going on.

Sigh. I really thought I had this thing beat.
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Postby migolivas on September 15th, 2005, 12:47 pm

Another question occurred to me.

What is the difference between what we are describing and myokymia? Is it the fact that the muscle is somewhat engaged when the rippling occurs that distinguishes contraction fascics from myokymia?

I can only make mine ripple if I hold my hand at certain angles. It ceases to ripple as soon as I change the angle.

I am driving myself nuts again with this.
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Postby Lorgirl on September 16th, 2005, 2:25 pm

This is what is happening to me right now also. When I streth my hand out and flex the muscle in it a certain way, I get ripple twitches by my wrist/forearm. I also was wondering about the ulnar nerve and/or carpal tunnel because I have had bad pain in my right wrist (the opposite one of the twitcher) all week. I type all day at the computer, so that is a possibility.

Like someone else said, it can't be that serious if we are all having the same symptoms. Right?
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Postby dave y on September 16th, 2005, 3:35 pm

What makes you think those are contraction fasciculations? How do you know they are not totally normal and you haven't noticed them before?

I have one of those in my arm when I flex it, or I did and haven't checked for a long time, and showed it to my neuro and I think he didn't even bother to look more than a split second and didn't say a word. Obviously of no concern to him.

I get them too if I just barely flex that muscle and I really don't think they are fasciculations. I think they are just the nerves confused over whether you really want to flex or not (for lack of better understanding and terminology).

Ever hear of a neuro looking for it?

This just sounds like absolutely nothing to me.

Now... going to try to re-impose my forum exile...
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Postby migolivas on September 16th, 2005, 4:19 pm

dave y wrote:What makes you think those are contraction fasciculations? How do you know they are not totally normal and you haven't noticed them before?

I have one of those in my arm when I flex it, or I did and haven't checked for a long time, and showed it to my neuro and I think he didn't even bother to look more than a split second and didn't say a word. Obviously of no concern to him.

I get them too if I just barely flex that muscle and I really don't think they are fasciculations. I think they are just the nerves confused over whether you really want to flex or not (for lack of better understanding and terminology).

Ever hear of a neuro looking for it?

This just sounds like absolutely nothing to me.

Now... going to try to re-impose my forum exile...


The more I think about it, the more I think you are right dave. It is definitely the most logical explanation.

In addition, I have discovered I can do this with other muscles in my body as well -- it is highly unlikely that I have contraction fascics spread out all over my body. And, after a lot of effort, my extremely patient wife was able to get some muscle rippling too, and I am positive she doesn't have a nmd.

It is amazing what our minds can convince us of sometimes.
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Postby Schuey on September 17th, 2005, 3:23 am

Dave Y, good to see you back, even if it is just a quickie!!!!

We miss you.......

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Postby migolivas on September 19th, 2005, 2:47 pm

Quick update on me.

I'm pretty much sure I do not have contraction fascics as my "rippling" has now progressed into full-fledged thumb / finger tremors. They get so strong they shake my entire hand at times.

I am assuming this is a good sign as far as ruling ALS out is concerned. I think I read that tremors in the absence of actual weakness are not indicative of ALS, but I can't find that info now.

Does anyone know for sure?
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Postby Guest on September 24th, 2005, 10:47 am

To fbandersnatch - I have exactly 100% the same scenario you do in your hands.

I have been twitching for 3 years, been to two neuros after 2.5 years. Both said no sign of neuro muscular disease. This included two EMGs, including needles in the hand in question.
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Postby Nicky on September 25th, 2005, 6:14 am

That was my post (I forgot to sign in):
I have exactly EXACTLY 100% the same scenario you do in your hands.

I have been twitching for 3 years, been to two neuros after 2.5 years. Both said no sign of neuro muscular disease. This included two EMGs, including needles in the hand in question.
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Postby shae on September 26th, 2005, 9:23 am

I definitely have this symptom. In fact it is the one that always upsets me the most. It seems very stubborn in this area. Once it starts it usually continues for months and months. Well with me anyway. After a year of this. I have been fortunate to have gone two months without the dreaded finger twitch. I can take them anywhere but there. I guess because it is so obvious.

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Postby smnbfstoo on September 26th, 2005, 10:23 am

I get it too and when I went to a follow up neuro visit on Friday, my neuro indicated she gets it there as well sometimes. Nothing to be alarmed about. I notice the strong twitches that can move my hands more in the morning when I first wake up and am lying in bed thinking about the day ahead (sometimes stressing of course). Then once I get up, it doesn't seem to happen, except I occasionally get the individual finger twitches which my neuro said are definitely not a sign of ***.
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