Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

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Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby muppetdog on May 17th, 2014, 5:30 pm

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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby muppetdog on May 17th, 2014, 10:30 pm

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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby MarioMangler on May 18th, 2014, 8:31 pm

I saw that too. How dare you claim my fad diet was just a fad.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby mwagner on May 19th, 2014, 10:52 am

Maybe it's placebo, but I've been gluten free for 2.5 years and my digestive system is way, way more calm than it was prior to my diet including gluten. I rarely have gas, for example, unless I eat a plate of beans. I was diagnosed with IBS a long time ago, and I really don't have IBS type of symptoms any longer. I don't have celiac.

I also think there's more to gluten sensitivity than just gas.

Anyway, I do accept that this could be placebo... the power of the mind can never be ruled out.

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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby muppetdog on May 19th, 2014, 11:25 am

Ah, yeah, I think they were monitoring more then "gas" in their studies. Everyone just has gluten on the brain. It's not some magic bullet.

I think they speculated that a low FODMAP Diet http://stanfordhospital.org/digestivehealth/nutrition/DH-Low-FODMAP-Diet-Handout.pdf is what helped people that really thought they were gluten sensitive.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby mwagner on May 19th, 2014, 1:31 pm

That, I disagree with - because those items I eat all the time, and my digestive system still remains calm (except for the Galactans category!). Getting rid of gluten was the only real change in my diet.

The FODMAPs in the diet are:
Fructose (fruits, honey, high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), etc)
Lactose (dairy)
Fructans (wheat, onion, garlic, etc)(f
ructans are also known as inulin)
Galactans (beans, lentils, legumes such as soy, etc)
Polyols (sweeteners containing sorbitol,
mannitol, xylitol, maltitol, stone fruits
such as avocado, apricots, c

interesting though, because they mention "wheat", which is filled with gluten. My whole reason to give up gluten started out because I supposedly have a wheat sensitivity. So I decided to give up gluten as a whole.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby mwagner on May 19th, 2014, 1:37 pm

But, I do agree with the fact that giving up gluten is not a magic bullet. I have a doctor who is adamant that I need to go on Paleo, because it's not just gluten, it's any grain, dairy, legumes and sugar that will make an overall difference. She's trying to work with my anxiety and of course, my nervous system issues... I have done Paleo before, but not to that extent (I ate plenty of legumes and had cheated with dairy probably too often). She's a doctor of osteopathy - so she is an M.D. but also looks at things holistically. She's also big into the whole candida thing, and I'm not 100% convinced of the whole candida issue. I have no antibodies (although she said most people don't) to candida, and my ALCAT test showed that I wasn't sensitive to candida. I think candida can be an issue for people, but I'd bet that 99% of the population has some yeast overgrowth, and most of them are doing just fine.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby SecretAgentMan on May 19th, 2014, 6:41 pm

I'm one of those forum members who throws out the diet suggestion as a "potential" avenue they might want to pursue. I'm not sure where people get the "magic bullet" claim, but it certainly should not be from any of my posts. I do my best to try and stress the point that IF gluten intolerance or sensitivity is an issue for them it is not the cause but merely another symptom of something bigger going on. I don't even point to candida as the ultimate cause any longer because that too is just another part of the equation. At least that is how it was in my case. I had to take a multi-faceted approach to completely overcome my BFS. There was no one thing that I did that sealed the deal. I had to address multiple areas of my life, but diet was indeed one of them. I fully believe that had I not addressed diet I would have not made it to where I am today.

I eat gluten today. I eat lots of it. I have zero issues with it now and the BFS and twitching are all gone. There was a time when I could not though and I don't see how placebo or nocebo could possibly have been a factor since on multiple occasions I reacted even though I was blind to the fact that it had been ingested. Only after the fact was it revealed that I slipped up and ate something. If something happens often enough the chances of coincidence decrease to a point where doubt is no longer reasonable.

People are free to believe whatever they wish to believe though. Eat what you want to eat and do what you want to do. We're all adults here.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby mwagner on May 19th, 2014, 7:02 pm

I totally agree with SAM, I think we can figure out our own bodies with what we eat and the reactions from our bodies. And, I agree that I think our disorder can be multi-faceted, and maybe due to a combination of multiple causes. And, why not try out one thing or another, including modifying our diets?

I accidentally had gluten in some gravy I had prepared for Thanksgiving, and felt really, really ill afterwards (again, major gastrointestinal distress). And, it wasn't from overeating or anything typical for Thanksgiving, because I ate very moderately that night, had no dessert, etc. Again, I guess it could be nocebo, but I really can't figure out how that could possibly be... Again, I so rarely have those issues since I have given up gluten that I was really surprised to see how badly I reacted.

Anyway, I do wish that they would do more studies on this. I strongly feel that dairy and gluten are culprits for many people for many things. Neither lactose nor gluten are easily digestible, and it just makes sense. But, I'm also not one to cut down or deny a scientific study, so I'd really like to see it replicated (or disputed).

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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby BFSBurger on May 28th, 2014, 5:42 pm

Fad diet. That's funny. One thing gluten sensitivity is not ... is a "fad". It may not affect everyone, but there are countless published journal studies showing that it can and does damage the lining of the gut, even in non-celiacs. But knowledge of the studies is not something most people bother with. Its much easier to skim articles you run across on "Business Insider" instead. Lets read something from someone who actually digs into published studies all day long, nearly every day of his life. Chris Kresser.

If you're too lazy to read things in detail, the summary goes like this: There are studies proving gluten damages the gut in a significant portion of the population, and results in numerous systemic conditions. This study did not disprove that. It showed that people were sensitive to wheat, versus isolated gluten. Nobody eats isolated gluten. They eat wheat. Everyone still had bad reactions to the same exact foods(!!). All this study shows is that there may be something else in wheat in addition to gluten, which is causing these health problems. It doesn't come remotely close to saying "Eat Wheat". And the same people who wrote this study proved that wheat causes damage to people in a previous study. This study was just to try and isolate which ingredient was the culprit. Make sense now?

--------------------------------------------------------------

http://chriskresser.com/is-gluten-sensitivity-real

You’ve probably seen the recent glut of sensational headlines in the media proclaiming that non-celiac gluten sensitivity is some kind of widespread collective delusion—simply a figment of the imagination of anyone who claims to experience it.

These stories point to a new study which found that a group of patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) were not sensitive to gluten. (1) The researchers who performed this study had previously published a paper showing that IBS patients were sensitive to wheat, and that removing wheat from their diet led to an improvement of symptoms. However, in this new study, the authors specifically isolated gluten and found that there was no difference in symptoms between the patients eating high-gluten diets and those eating low-gluten diets.

This is a significant finding, but to claim that it proves that non-celiac gluten sensitivity doesn’t exist is both inaccurate and irresponsible. It’s a great way to get clicks and generate attention (On news websites - edit by BFSBurger), but it’s an extreme distortion of what the study actually found.

Why this study doesn’t disprove gluten sensitivity

First, this study examined the effects of gluten in a specific population: people with irritable bowel syndrome. Even if it is true that gluten sensitivity is no more common in people with IBS than in people without IBS (which is premature to conclude on the basis of a single study), it does not overturn the large body of evidence that links non-celiac gluten sensitivity to a variety of health problems ranging from allergies to schizophrenia to autism spectrum disorders. (2, 3, 4, 5)

Second, this study does not suggest that people with IBS—or anyone else with gluten sensitivity—should feel free to start chowing down on wheat. In fact, it suggests the opposite. For the first week of the trial, all patients were put on a gluten-free diet that was also low in FODMAPs (a class of carbohydrates present in wheat, as well as other foods).

After this lead-in period, the participants were assigned to one of three groups: a high-gluten diet, a low-gluten diet, and a placebo. Those on the high gluten diet were given 16 grams per day of purified wheat gluten; those on the low gluten diet were given 2 grams per day of purified wheat gluten plus 14 grams per day of whey protein isolate; and those on the placebo diet were given 16 grams per day of whey protein isolate.

The majority of participants experienced a significant improvement of symptoms during the 7-day gluten-free, low FODMAP lead-in period. But there was no difference in symptoms between the high gluten, low gluten, or placebo groups during the subsequent treatment period. In other words, patients did react adversely to wheat, but they did not react to isolated gluten.

This of course suggests that something other than gluten in the wheat was causing the problems patients experienced. We now know that there are several compounds in wheat other than gluten that could be to blame. These include not only FODMAPs, but also agglutinins (proteins that bind to sugar), prodynorphins (proteins involved with cellular communication), and additional proteins that are formed during the process of wheat digestion, such as deamidated gliadin and gliadorphins (aka gluteomorphins). (6)

Another possibility is that both the placebo and low-gluten groups were reacting to the whey protein. Whey is >99% casein- and lactose-free, which is what most people who are sensitive to dairy react to. However, it is certainly possible for people to react adversely to whey, and in my experience this is more common with patients with digestive problems. If some of the “placebo” and low-gluten patients were, in fact, sensitive to whey, then that would invalidate the results of the study.

How to find out if you’re sensitive to wheat, gluten, or both

This study showed that for people with IBS on a low FODMAP diet, eating isolated gluten does not cause symptoms. But one might ask: who cares? Do you eat isolated, purified gluten? Do you know anyone who does? I doubt it. People eat wheat—not gluten. And as both this study and numerous other studies have demonstrated, there are several components of wheat other than gluten that cause problems.

In practical terms, this study still supports the idea that patients with IBS should avoid wheat, because it contains FODMAPs and possibly other compounds that make them feel worse. What this study does tell us is that it’s possible that IBS patients may be able to tolerate other non-wheat products that contain gluten, presuming they are low in FODMAPs and other compounds that they may react to.

Here’s the best way to determine if this is true for you:

Remove all gluten-containing foods and products from your diet for 60 days.
At the end of the 60 day period, cook up a bowl of barley, eat it, and see what happens.
A few days later, eat a piece of wheat bread.

Barley is a gluten-containing grain that is low in FODMAPs. If you react to it, that suggests you’re intolerant of gluten or other gluten-like compounds. If you don’t react to barley, but you do react to the wheat bread, that suggests you are intolerant to something in wheat specifically.

You may be able to safely consume gluten-containing products other than wheat—though it’s worth pointing out that many of these products (primarily grains and processed foods) would not be foods you should be consuming regularly anyways.
Is “non-celiac wheat sensitivity” a better label?

If there’s an important takeaway from this study, it’s this: non-celiac wheat sensitivity may be a different clinical entity than non-celiac gluten sensitivity. The former would be used to describe patients that are intolerant of wheat, but are able to eat other gluten-containing foods without symptoms. The latter would apply to patients who are sensitive to any food or product that contains gluten, including wheat. In fact, this distinction was originally proposed by researchers in response to another study which found no effects of gluten in patients on a low FODMAP diet. (7)

Now I’d like to hear from you. Are you ready to give up on the idea that you’re gluten sensitive after reading this study? Why or why not? Have any of you already done the experiment that I suggested above? What did you discover?
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby muppetdog on May 28th, 2014, 8:21 pm

Ha! I knew I would stir it up with this one. Good posts though. I think it's safe to say that you can have problems with a lot of stuff not just GLUTEN!! People were getting a bit gluten crazy there, as though the human body was that simple.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby SecretAgentMan on May 29th, 2014, 6:29 pm

muppetdog wrote:Ha! I knew I would stir it up with this one. Good posts though. I think it's safe to say that you can have problems with a lot of stuff not just GLUTEN!! People were getting a bit gluten crazy there, as though the human body was that simple.


I am not aware of anyone who claimed BFS problems are because of 'just gluten'. Furthermore only a select few humor the gluten possibility and even fewer try and stick to a gluten free diet. The people who notice a positive change will naturally post on the topic to share their experiences and perceptions in an attempt to help others. To say that the forum has become 'a bit gluten crazy' is more than a stretch. I think many people are intimidated to post on the topic because of fear of being mocked or ridiculed. Just because you don't agree with an approach or can't fathom how it may have an influence on BFS does not detract from the fact that a number of people have had success with it. The only crazy thing I see going on is people trying to diminish or discredit an approach that may help others (and themselves for that matter). I think it is crazy to not take success stories seriously. That's just me though.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby muppetdog on June 1st, 2014, 3:39 pm

Hmm... okay....

SecretAgentMan wrote:I think many people are intimidated to post on the topic because of fear of being mocked or ridiculed.


I apologizes if this thread came off as me "ridiculing people," but after reading back through my comments I really don't see that. I post articles on this site to make people think. To me, it seemed like there were quite a few posts where people where only discussing gluten as a dietary silver bullet to cure twitching. I am sorry if this thread trespassed on anyone's beliefs.

As you can see from above, there were people that said "yes" gluten did matter for them, so it was a good discussion. I wish more people would chime in on it. Don't worry, I won't ridicule you :)
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

Postby johnnythejet on June 17th, 2014, 2:22 pm

Haha I've missed this place.

Muppetdog - you certainly need not apologize as you have done nothing wrong. We have a wide variety of individuals come through our community and some are more sensitive than others. If anything, I know too many who have refused to speak out against the silly (IMO) idea that gluten is of any significance to us for fear of being ridiculed, mocked, and insulted. We don't have to dig very deep into the archives to see some people react very aggressively when being challenged. Its almost worth "letting it go" than dealing with the wrath that has historically followed the act of speaking out against the gluten-free or paleo diets.

The old timers still around have seen the long history of fad diets, medications, herbal remedies, etc. each at one time championed by some as the answer to our suffering (or lack thereof). Regardless of how far-fetched, there were always those who swear by the results based on their own experiences (and those of a few others). Typically, any negative feedback from other members gets challenged with defensiveness (changing the issue to a personal nature) or responses like "you must not be doing it right". In the end, those with the most years under their belt generally report beating BFS is like 90% mental. Given that, we can expect placebo effects to be big players in our condition as seen with many of these proposed solutions.
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Re: Gluten Sensitivity Not Real?

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