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AboutBFS.com • View topic - Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby BFSBurger on July 12th, 2013, 11:13 am

How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby christo on July 12th, 2013, 11:22 am

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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby SecretAgentMan on July 12th, 2013, 11:34 am

The adrenals may get over-taxed, depleted, or start to not function properly, but in a vast majority of cases this would only be temporary. Never underestimate the ability of the body to heal itself. What is missing in most cases is that 1.) most people/doctors never realize the adrenals are in need in the first place and 2.) even if they are realized to need care the doctors only have surgery or drugs at their disposal and the adrenals need neither. Everything that happens in the body happens for a reason. Every symptom manifests to counter-balance something else that is going on. Sometimes you can have a complex chain of events, each causing something else to react and fall out of balance. It all happens for a reason though. The adrenals are likely just another symptom of the imbalances that cause BFS in the larger picture.
If your mind is your own worst enemy, why not make friends with it and turn it into your greatest ally? Mental discipline is achievable and there is help available. Learn what works for you, practice, and change your life for the better.
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby aztwitchy on July 12th, 2013, 11:53 am

"Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being, and not merely the absence of disease or infirmity." ~World Health Organization, 1948
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby BFSBurger on July 13th, 2013, 7:58 pm

Christo -

A non-exercise group is definitely present on this board, but I would expect them to have significantly worse symptoms, if this is related to HPA Axis Dysfunction or Adrenal Insufficiency.

Why? Because such individuals have zero outlet for the anxiety, emotional trauma and stress they experience. That inflammation will continue to build, continue to put strain on the adrenals, and continue to pump cortisol and adrenaline into their veins, with no way to release it. Add lack of sleep, hours in front of the computer, lack of sunlight, the intake of coffee or energy drinks, and you have a recipe for disaster. Nothing calms inflammation and releases stress better than moderate, physical activity.

I didn't get BFS from exercise, but from a long process of traumatic emotional events, lack of sleep, bad food intake, poisonous medicines, self induced damage, vaccines, antibiotics, lack of electrolytes, abnormally low cholesterol, viral infections, and some significant exercise just to "run me down" even more.

As far as your thread goes, it sounded like you were trying to prove that you guys are different than all the exercise enthusiasts here. I only chimed in to encourage people to *begin* moderate exercise, because it *will* help their symptoms. I don't think the celebration of a sedentary lifestyle of complete inactivity is a good thing. If HPA Axis Dysfunction is related to BFS, then you guys aren't different at all. It's only when exercise branches off to putting strain on the body, tiring it out, and wearing it down, that it becomes bad for people with BFS.

As far as my "vision" goes, I still don't know what causes BFS. So my vision has remained the same from the beginning. Im still searching, and enjoying every minute of the learning process.

-Burger-
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby Spider on July 14th, 2013, 2:01 am

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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby seventhcandle on July 15th, 2013, 2:27 am

I definitely believe that something is greatly off kilter in the hypothalmus with many cases of BFS, especially mine. My BFS is the result of decades of extreme stress, completely messed up sleep cycles, years of extreme/intense exercise, years of herbal supplement use, bad eating habits, and just general inconsistency with my lifestyle...complete lack of routines and whatnot. The sleeping pills that finally set off my BFS were just the tip of the iceburg. It had been brewing for a long time.

Besides the bodywide twitching, I've dealt with really messed up sleep since this started which has admittedly gotten better in the past month or two. I had extreme food intolerances which also have gotten somewhat better recently as well.

Like Burger, I wonder how doctors can simply dismiss us as hypochondriacs when there is clearly something malfunctioning somewhere. You don't just suddenly start twitching everywhere 24/7 out of nowhere...but the body does heal itself slowly. Slightly over one year in, I'm seeing a noticeable difference. Amazing what the body can do on its own either for the better or worse.

My ability to get deep sleep is nearly non-existant and I definitely have chronic fatigue every day, but even that has gotten somewhat better recently. I used to jerk around non-stop all night long for nights on end and get no sleep (again probable hypothalmic dysfunction) and most nights nowadays I'll noticeably jerk maybe 2 or 3 times before I fall asleep.

If anything, BFS has forced me to really take a look at my priorities and lifestyle and constantly re-examine them. I now follow routines, try to stick to a set bedtime, and have been moving more and more to a paleo diet. Last year I couldn't eat any meat, but now I can eat beef, fish, lamb, and I'll be adding chicken back into the mix soon. I don't know what it is about the paleo diet, but it seems to be helping somewhat in all ways.

So if it's hypothalmic dysfunction, then hopefully that'll sort itself out over time as long as we take really good care of our bodies.
Been on the BFS journey since 6/26/12...

Twitch way do I go from here?

BFS does get better with time. Almost two years in and able to do almost everything I could do before I had this condition. Still twitching away of course...
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby Spider on July 15th, 2013, 3:20 am

There you go .I am also a shift worker for 20 years .

Sleep pattern all over the place .
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby seventhcandle on July 20th, 2013, 5:17 pm

This HPA Axis Dysfunction theory is really sticking with me as I think more and more about how my BFS began. There is a structure in the brain called the sensory homunculus (spelling?) which basically has a one-to-one correspondence with neuromuscular sensation. For instance, if an electrode were placed in the region of the sensory homunculus responsible for sensation in your feet, you would feel something in your feet when that region of the brain were activated.

So I'm wondering...might BFS originate entirely in the brain around HPA Axis Dysfunction and might the brain be sending signals to the muscles via the sensory homunculus telling them to contract? Might the "spreading" of our twitching be entirely due to the dysfunction spreading across the different regions of this part of the brain?

I've been thinking a lot about this lately but I don't know enough about neurology to really get anywhere useful with this theory. Thoughts?
Been on the BFS journey since 6/26/12...

Twitch way do I go from here?

BFS does get better with time. Almost two years in and able to do almost everything I could do before I had this condition. Still twitching away of course...
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby BFSBurger on July 20th, 2013, 10:59 pm

I am all over this theory lately, but for the first time, I have been too busy to research it. I fully expect to hit a dead end (LOL) but at the same time, this is the first time people's bloodwork has actually matched HPA Dysfunction. That is something that can't be said about any of the other theories I have floated. The beauty of the "dysfunction" is that it can be in either direction. DHEA can be sky high, or too low. Testosterone usually low. Cortisol can be too high, or too low. Dysfunction leaves it wide open. But as I mentioned to Chrissi on Skype, I still have to somehow correlate twitching with HPA Dysfunction. Or maybe not. You can google adrenal fatigue and see plenty of people reporting systemwide twitching. Your theory may be valid, but I know nothing about it just yet. As a side note: Even if this is the true cause of BFS, the exercise/stress management/diet change theories still fit perfectly. Science has proven that all three of these play significant roles in the hormone/steroid activities in the body. So it all really does fit perfectly.
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby seventhcandle on July 21st, 2013, 2:07 am

Burger, I don't think you are going to hit a dead end with this one at all. I don't think the HPA theory explains everything, but I would bet money that it explains at least 70% of what's going on with us, maybe more.

I had a conversation with a neurologist in New York a few months ago about what the latest and greatest BFS discoveries have been and I am going to directly quote what he said (he works in neuro-imaging):

"I think most neurologists feel that BFS is a way your muscles are. There is some evidence that the T channels that carry calcium away from the sarcoplasmic reticulum in the muscle fibers are anatomically different in your muscle, hence the repeated fasciculations. So the treatment is only symptomatic, because you are not going to change your muscular anatomy."

Now I don't know what this has to do with the HPA axis, but let's suppose that our muscles are pre-wired for extra twitching via anatomically distinct T channels. Then suppose our adrenal glands get overloaded...in a person with normally constructed T-channels, perhaps their twitching wouldn't be as bad as ours or would go away quicker, but people like us may just be wired differently, and I mean in every way, including our personalities.

Another neurologist, Jack Scariano Jr., wrote, "This is unusual because [BFS] is a acquired muscle abnormality, as opposed to a congenital type of muscle problem in which the muscles fire at a very low threashold. Cells in our body have membraines which maintain a electical charge across it. the charge is maintanined by the movement of sodium and potassium across the membrane. These elements mover through channels in the membrane which let the sodium in and out in microseconds. when ths sodium is let in the cell has a discharge which in muscle makes a contraction. Now when you have benign fasiculations, these cells fire at much higher potential which leads to the fasiculation. A simple explanation: lets say that a normal muscle has 100 sodium molecules on the outside. when 50 are let inside. the muscle contracts. In benigh fasiculation, the muscles fire at say 10 sodium in, the muscle fires early and more frequently. Anxiety also cases chemical changes which make the muscles fire more frequently without intendent movement. So the facsulations get worst."

Notice how Dr. Scariano mentions that anxiety causes "chemical changes." I am wondering if these chemical changes he refers to are a confluence of HPA axis dysfunction and anatomically distinct T-channels in the muscles. Maybe anxiety over time even has the ability to alter the anatomy of the T-channels plus much of that could be genetic as well...who knows? It's a chicken and egg question for me, but the neuro I spoke to seems to be leaning toward a genetic predisposition toward altered T-channel anatomy (which might explain why BFS runs in families).

And speaking of the motor-sensory homunculus, here is a basic wikipedia entry explaining what it is:

What is especially interesting about this brain structure is that it plays a HUGE role in sensation and perception. People who've lost their arms or other limbs in accidents can still "feel" their presence thanks to this body map. This phenomenon is called "phantom limbs" and a prominent neurologist by the name of Dr. Ramachandran wrote a book on it about a decade ago called "Phantoms in the Brain." A must read. I loved it.

So my theory right now is that basically BFS is result of (A) structurally altered T-channels in the muscles, (B) generalized anxiety causing HPA-axis dysfunction and thus chemically altering muscle function much worse in people who have these altered T-channels, and (C) perhaps some cortical dysfunction via the sensory homunculus.

I would be very interested to have an experiment run where there is a non BFS control group and another group of very heavy BFS twitchers and then have both of them go in for functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scans to see which areas of the brain have altered blood flow during twitching episodes compared to controls. That may explain the cortical component to this (lol, it's not ALL in your mind, but you know what I'm saying, right?)

If this is truly the case, I am afraid that may never be a cure for BFS, but there should be a way to treat the symptoms effectively by targeting the HPA-axis dysfunction via stress management and possibly medication. Making things less chaotic, you know...

Well, what do you think?
Been on the BFS journey since 6/26/12...

Twitch way do I go from here?

BFS does get better with time. Almost two years in and able to do almost everything I could do before I had this condition. Still twitching away of course...
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby BFSBurger on July 21st, 2013, 10:33 am

Good post.

When you start to research cortisol, adrenaline, and other hormones and their effect on muscle firing, you'll see a direct correlation there too. And the HPA Axis directly affects hormone and steroid levels. Everything is tied in. Just google this term and you'll be swamped with results: adrenal fatigue muscle twitching

HPA Axis Dysfunction is implicated in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fibromyalgia as well. So its blamed for a lot of unrelated and very unique disorders. I guess how it plays out in each person can be different. It may be a lot like mitochondrial dysfunction. That's a very initial precursor to tons of "down the stream" disorders. Disorders that take on a life of their own. Technically mitochodnrial damage could be the culprit, but by the time you end up with "X" disease, you barely remember that the problem is in your mitochondria. It may be the same with HPA Dysfunction. It may be a "first level" trigger that .... since it has such a widespread effect on every process in the body ... leads to numerous eventual disorders.

However - with the number of worry warts and extreme athletes here, it is almost a no brainer what is going on. Stress causes muscle twitching. We already know that. Excessive muscle working causes muscle twitching. In everyone. So here we have a bunch of extreme athletes and stressed out people .... who twitch like crazy. Something "flipped the switch on" for us, and it hasn't turned off.

I think doctors looking at the whole potassium / calcium thing are looking at it very simplistically, but I get where they're coming from. I think if HPA is part of this, then it would be the hormone and steroid levels which agitate things for us. This is the very reason why anything affecting hormone and steroid levels (even food) can trigger symptoms. I am speaking before I've had a chance to research, so I need to get going on that. Apologies for the delay. I have friends coming into town from California this week so I'll try to start reading more after.

-Burger-
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby ShawnW on January 26th, 2014, 4:39 pm

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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby seventhcandle on February 17th, 2014, 6:53 pm

Been on the BFS journey since 6/26/12...

Twitch way do I go from here?

BFS does get better with time. Almost two years in and able to do almost everything I could do before I had this condition. Still twitching away of course...
User avatar
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

Postby SecretAgentMan on February 17th, 2014, 10:04 pm

If your mind is your own worst enemy, why not make friends with it and turn it into your greatest ally? Mental discipline is achievable and there is help available. Learn what works for you, practice, and change your life for the better.
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Re: Hypothalimus Pituitary Adrenal Axis Dysfunction

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