The gut and autoimmunity.

[SecretAgentMan]

Please BFSBurger and G-Dog, let us not lose perspective that we are all here to help our fellow forum members. Everyone has their own unique perspective that they have arrived upon through the sum of their life experiences. We may have minor disagreements on what the best approach may be but rather than harp on the differences let us instead focus our energy and attention on our common goal to gain in our knowledge and understanding while sharing our experiences with others. This forum is here for us to collaborate.

Arguing only causes people to dig in their heels, put up their defenses, and close their minds. Nothing will be accomplished other than bruised egos and emotions. Instead lets agree to disagree. G-Dog has had some wonderful success in easing his symptoms by relaxing and overcoming his fear and worries. This is a wonderful message that many on this forum need to hear. G-Dog please post on your success story, how you achieved it, and try to help others reach that level of confidence and courage that you were able to achieve. If others want to pursue digestive health research and how it might be related please let them pursue their heart's desire without judging them. Their path is not your responsibility, just as your path is not theirs. They are following their instincts and intuition just as you did. It is always fine to engage someone in a healthy debate, but respect their beliefs as you would ask others to respect yours.

BFSBurger has also had success as I have in changing his diet. This success story should be shared as well. I personally post on this topic equally as much as I do on overcoming anxiety because they were both critical for my recovery. This forum is big enough for all of us and there is no reason to challenge eachother in who is right and who is wrong. So... Friends?

[G-Dog]

SecretAgentMan no problem! I certainly don't mean to offend anyone, just looking to throw some arguments into the mix that's all. There are many interesting discussions taking place on this forum, some hold more water than others. Like many of you (I suspect) I have amassed more medical knowledge than any lay person ought to know...has it served me well? I'm not so sure! My first BFS symptoms started to appear in November 2010... I have had a history of health anxiety and I can relate to many stories on this board. I'll not go in to detail about the first few months as it mirrors the experience of many others and I don't really feel that it adds much value. Suffice to say I went to see one of the best Neurologists in London...he gave me a full examination and told me that I was perfectly healthy and that no further diagnostic tests were required....Did I listen? of course not!! I went back the gym started pushing more weights than ever before, testing every muscle in my body...What do you think my partner thought when she saw me walking around on my heels and toes!? And crucially (at least for me) this is what I believe was the most damaging aspect of BFS...it becomes all consuming and it strains relationships. Of course the people who care about you don't want to see you suffer, but when you have been given the all clear and told that you have a benign condition what will your partner, your friends and family think when you relentlessly pursue this?

So how did I solve this...I redirected my OCD tendencies towards something that was more productive. For me it was setting up a company, but it could have easily been to learn a new musical instrument, embark on a new hobby, take up drawing and painting etc. I also started to take better care of my health, I became more conscious about what I ate...but I didn't build myself a virtual prison cell by denying myself of the luxuries I previously enjoyed, most notably coffee and chocolate. I go to the gym every weekday and exercise at a level I feel comfortable with...no more strength testing!! On the weekends I can walk for miles anything to get me outdoors. So yes when SecretAgentMan mentions a multi-faceted approach...I couldn't agree more! The key is moderation. The only supplement I will take is vitamin D3 (approx 3000 I.U.), that's because I live in the UK which consists of two seasons June and Winter. There is incontrovertible evidence linking vitamin D deficiency to a swath of different health problems.

I know to some this will sound uninspiring...there are people here who are looking for a smoking gun, I was one of them! That's the choice some people take...but it didn't work for me!

[SecretAgentMan]

G-Dog, I applaud your attitude, drive, and ability to realize a self-destructive behavior and turn it around. I couldn’t agree with you more that people build themselves a mental prison based on their fears. That is not necessarily what is taking place in this particular thread though. What bothers people like BFSBurger and myself is that doctors do push people out the door with a ‘clean bill of health’ while there is something wrong. If there wasn’t something wrong, you wouldn’t be there in the first place. Furthermore my experience has been such that I know attitude and emotional stress (health OCD for example) are very much important but not the sole source. I did have an autoimmune condition and it was digestive health related. Had I not pursued answers in that area and found doctors who were knowledgeable I wouldn’t be in the great shape that I am today. Had I not pursued answers I would probably still be suffering with twitches, although diminished if I had still addressed my health worries, but I would still have the autoimmune and digestive health issue. I just would have remained unaware of it.

[aztwitchy]

I agree with your posts secretagentman....

G-dog I am happy you seem to have taken control of your particular situation. I'm sure their are a lot of people on this board where OCD\GAD is the main root cause for BFS which it sounds like is your case, but again there are a lot of people who that may not be the case (fibro, neuromyotonia, thyroid, PNH, SFN, on and on)...so again I am sorry but telling people to relax and move on is not good advice. Relax! well obviously for BFS thats good advice but just moving on and continuing your lifestyle that got you into the mess your in is not going to produce good results. Anyone who suffers BFS either has a real pathological illness or a culmination of a lifestyle where their body is telling them they are maxing out and its had enough. Diet plays a big part in our health and well being..as the saying goes "You are what you eat" that is why I still think the original premise of the thread is worthwhile...its not quack science to say that your digestive system plays a large part in our overall health and can be the source of many autoimmune disorders. Our digestive systems are the battle ground of many diseases. So while I am happy and jealous you can continue to partake in coffee and chocolate, for people like me those are a big no-no....not because I locked myself in an imaginary prison but rather they have a direct impact on severity of symptoms...Coffee and chocolate as you know are CNS stimulants and as such if you truly have nerve excitability its a bad idea to throw more gas on the flames. The same holds true for other conditions that can cause BFS symptoms like gluten intolerance or glycemic conditions. I also don't see how this is an extraordinary claim requiring an extraordinary explanation...is there any doubt that the quality of our diets has diminished over time? do you honestly believe all of the chemicals, altered ingredients, and preservatives in prepackaged food are not in some way to blame for our ever increasing disease and immune disorder? Outside of addressing anxiety and OCD I do believe 100% that diet also needs to be addressed....and it takes experimentation, finding out what helps and what hurts. So yes the original article needs to be taken with a grain of salt but for some people that one change to their diets might make a world of difference.

When Larry the cable guy is selling us berry flavored prilosec on prime time TV it should be a serious wake up call to us that there is a serious problem with our food, diets, and attitudes toward both.

[G-Dog]

I'm sure their are a lot of people on this board where OCD\GAD is the main root cause for BFS which it sounds like is your case, but again there are a lot of people who that may not be the case (fibro, neuromyotonia, thyroid, PNH, SFN, on and on)

But how many people have been given an affirmative diagnosis for any of the above conditions? I mean an actual diagnosis issued by a doctor, not a self-diagnosis? Neuromyotonia and PNH can be isolated on an EMG. Thyroid can be detected from a blood workup. If any of the above conditions were diagnosed then they don't have BFS and I'm not sure if you realised but this forum is called AboutBFS.com. BFS has such an overwhelming correlation with anxiety that it seems illogical to pursue other causes. When I say "move on", I don't mean to return to your old ways, I mean move on from this scattershot approach of trying to link BFS to this that and the other. Instead deal with your anxiety and yes that may well involve cutting out the junk food and eating healthier foods.

[SecretAgentMan]

I believe a diagnosis is a dangerous thing, whether handed down from a doctor or self-daignosed. A named diagnosed disease is nothing more than a grouping of common symptoms that are observed in a select group of people and assigned a name. Unfortunately many human beings will identify with a diagnosis, whether it truly describes them or not. Sometimes they will even develop symptoms that are common to that diagnosis that they otherwise did not have prior. This is also why diagnosis by google or webMD are shunned on this forum, because people here know all to well the dangerous power of the human mind. What I do not understand though is why more people do not get the notion to turn that power of their mind around and use it for good, as you are talking about G-Dog. Focus on the positive and put that energy and attention towards the good things in your life. I think where we differ in opinion is that I think it can still be healthy to pursue answers as to what is causing the symptoms you do have. The key is in realizing the power your mind has over your health and actively using it to stay positively focused.

[aztwitchy]

I'm sure their are a lot of people on this board where OCD\GAD is the main root cause for BFS which it sounds like is your case, but again there are a lot of people who that may not be the case (fibro, neuromyotonia, thyroid, PNH, SFN, on and on)

But how many people have been given an affirmative diagnosis for any of the above conditions? I mean an actual diagnosis issued by a doctor, not a self-diagnosis? Neuromyotonia and PNH can be isolated on an EMG. Thyroid can be detected from a blood workup. If any of the above conditions were diagnosed then they don't have BFS and I'm not sure if you realised but this forum is called AboutBFS.com. BFS has such an overwhelming correlation with anxiety that it seems illogical to pursue other causes. When I say "move on", I don't mean to return to your old ways, I mean move on from this scattershot approach of trying to link BFS to this that and the other. Instead deal with your anxiety and yes that may well involve cutting out the junk food and eating healthier foods.

anxiety does not explain why people would continue to have BFS for 7+ years despite treatment for anxiety.

[BFSBurger]

Exactly. BFS is not an anxiety problem. People who don't understand the science or Biology of the body will pick a *symptom* and call it the *cause*. That is the reason so many here kick back, do absolutely nothing, and try to focus on having less anxiety. The simple fact is, your anxiety GOES UP when your symptoms GO UP. And your anxiety GOES DOWN when your symptoms decrease. If people haven't noticed that yet, then there's nothing we can do to help them Anxiety is a biproduct of BFS. It is not a cause. Anxiety may be a symptom of BFS as well. There are other conditions / even viral infections, which play havoc with the nervous system and the nervous system is directly tied to anxiety levels. So if your anxiety has gone up, while your nervous system is having issues - don't be so surprised. The question is what is the causative agent of all this?

Nobody knows. So I think the smartest approach is to treat yourself like you've got an active viral infection. You know how you get when you have the flu? Do that. Step up the fluid intake. Up the electrolyte intake. Moderate exercise only. Nutrient intake, vitamin intake, rest. Avoid toxic chemicals like alcohol, etc. Treat your body well, and give it the tools it needs to heal whatever is happening.

I do believe that plays a role in separating the guy who has BFS for 1 year from the guy who has BFS for 20 years.

The simple fact is this:

Its a proven scientific phenomenon that "life" causes cellular damage. Cellular damage causes toxins. Toxins cause cell death and aging. These are factual statements. Normally, people begin to see the adverse effects of this cell degradation at age 40, 50, 60, 70 years old. This is why ALS and every other disease in the book almost always have late onset. This is why a 15 year old almost never gets deadly diseases. His cells are new. Fresh. Have not gone through 20 years of medications, pollutants, and free-radical damage. None of this is "natural" hocus pocus baloney. Its scientific fact. When disease processes begin is directly affected by how much duress your body's cells have undergone in your first ~40~ ish years. Will you be disabled by 50? Or will you be disabled by 90 ?

Cells get old, and therefore you get old. And start to get sick. And have malfunctions.

A constant filtering of your cells, organs, and brain with nutrients shown to effectively facilitate cell processes is the key to SLOWING DOWN the cell degradation process. And I literally can't think of a more important element than pure, organic vegetable extracts / juice. Deep leafy greens, bright colors, etc. They all have been proven to perform this role for cells. Go through your day eating cereal, a sammich, and some lasagna before bed? Guess what. You've done absolutely nothing to prevent this process of keeping your cells functions young, clean, and optimized.

[G-Dog]

anxiety does not explain why people would continue to have BFS for 7+ years despite treatment for anxiety.

It does if those people are not responding to treatment. For many with anxiety there is no cure, it's more about modifying behavioural patterns and implementing lifestyle changes. Also people suffer varying degrees of anxiety and some respond to treatment better than others. It's almost an innate part of someone's personality, it usually surfaces in childhood and there's much to suggest that it runs in families. Also anxiety as a disorder that tends to slip through the gaps in our healthcare system as it's difficult to nail down and doesn't present with a tangible set of markers (i.e. ones that can easily be measured and quantified).

I know many people will disagree with this assessment but from my own experience and from the strong correlation I see on these boards, this is what I am led to believe. Also what many people overlook is that anxiety has a cumulative effect and part of treating BFS is unwinding the bad habits that one develops. It's not a case of flicking a switch or popping a few pills, it takes time and a lot of patience.

[G-Dog]

People who don't understand the science or Biology of the body will pick a *symptom* and call it the *cause*.

You seem pretty content on making condescending remarks about people's lack of scientific understanding. What you refer to as scientific is far from how science is actually done. What you have is nothing more than a wishy-washy bunch of theories you've cobbled together from the internet. I hope you find the cure you're looking for.

[SecretAgentMan]

Awe... I thought we had our temperments in check, but sparks are starting to fly again... Can't we all just get along?

Let's try an excercise. Anyone who has a beef with something someone said, try to let it go without getting the last word in. Close your eyes, take a deep breath or two and visualize letting it go. This is a great opportunity to learn how to be at peace with yourself, regardless of what other people think. So what do you say? Worth a shot? Let's all agree to disagree and focus on something positive instead. Ready, set, go!

To anyone who may have been offended by anything I posted, I humbly applogize. It was only my intent to share my thoughts and perspective for your careful consideration and nothing more. To all who may have offended me in the past, I forgive you and forgive myself for becoming overly concerned with your thoughts and perceptions.