The BFS Question

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The BFS Question

Postby ermeyers on August 13th, 2006, 8:53 am

To my very supportive BFS (or [B-FU-S]) friends and my not yet "To be" friends,
ermeyers wrote:Tomorrow's truth, won't come until tomorrow. :) -Eric R. Meyers (quick summary of The Bible and Christianity in its entirety)


ermeyers wrote:"To Benign, or not to Benign, that is the BFS question." -Shakespeare (paraphrased) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakespeare )


Please continue fighting The Good Fight in The Just War for The Common Good. -Just War ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_War )

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." -FDR ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDR )

"There is no substitute for victory." -Douglas MacAuthur ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacAuthur )

Relax, "eat, drink and be merry,..." -Carpe diem :!: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem )

"Old soldiers never die, they just fade away." -Douglas MacAuthur

I will fade now.
When I die, this verse is going to be on my headstone: 2 Timothy 4:7 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Postby Mark S on August 13th, 2006, 11:57 pm

Did I miss something? Are you leaving the board? Sending off stuff or what?

There are no just wars...it's all just murder and violence. I cannot understand how Christians find *any* support in the teachings of Jesus to justify war. Turn the other cheek, if you're pressed into service go two miles, not one, if someone steals your coat give him your shirt too... All of these teachings need to be incredibly warped to justify violence. Perhaps the only scripture that is confusing is in Luke where Jesus says he sent them out first without anything but now to get a sword, carry money, etc. though this would be a stretch.

Paul is more confusing because he contradicts himself on this subject so there is not much basis there for support of violence - "that's why the nation carries the sword" is quoted often but when these passages are removed from context and not taken in light of the entire scripture then you can justify anything in the bible.

Always, however, you can lean on the old testament when in need of some serious, divinely supported violence. Though in many cases there we see God mandating the entire destruction of a nation...women, children, pillaging for booty, etc. In this sense the intelligent move is to use nuclear weapons (or as w says "nuceller") because they are more efficient, less costly, and put no one from the good team at risk.

Forgive the ranting but I am tired of all of this death and destruction. The only thing more repulsive than the loss of life is attempting to justify it by some bs formula that is manufactured to absolve blame. Oh wait, Jesus did drive out the moneychangers with a whip..okay...cool, slaughter the muslims, finish off germany and destroy the french too cause we've been raised up to punish their cheese-eaten, wine-drink'in, immoral butts !!!! It's all justified.
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Postby tewest99 on August 14th, 2006, 12:11 am

That was sooo funny, but I do see your point. In defense of taking the non-violent stance, in several places, the Bible mentions the Word of God as being a sharp two-edged sword. That and the fact that Jesus spoke figuratively and in parables quite often would lead me to believe that He chose the path of peace and that this sword was a figurative representation of the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

-------------------------------

Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Matthew 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Matthew 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

------------------------------------

They of his own household not they of another's household in another country; meaning, IMHO, that Jesus' teachings would divide families and friends because His teachings go directly against our natural inclinations, making them difficult to understand and follow. Somewhere in the confusion of all of this comes a group of scripture twisting zealots with blood on their hands and hatred in their hearts and they turn the Word of God into a literal sword.

As you mentioned, the disciples were sent out with a sword. The disciples' duty was to spread the gospel and preach the word. The word being the sword, the word of God. Not a literal piece of metal used to take life but words of peace used to save life including Muslims, Hindu's, Protestants and Catholics.


John 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

John 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?



Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

------------------------------------

That's my humble opinion. Perhaps I should have kept it to myself ...

After all this is a BFS forum ... Sorry if I'm off topic ...
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"The Good Fight in The Just War for The Common Good&

Postby ermeyers on August 14th, 2006, 4:04 am

Christianity is NONVIOLENCE and FORGIVENESS.

The Good Fight is NONVIOLENT and FORGIVING.

The Just War is The Counter-Intuitive War that Heals people, rather than Kills people.

The Common Good includes everyone globally ("Muslims, Hindu's, Protestants and Catholics.", etc.).
When I die, this verse is going to be on my headstone: 2 Timothy 4:7 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Postby tewest99 on August 14th, 2006, 4:38 am

WILL SMITH ROCKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The creator of the Wicki !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Smith

Wicki-wild wild
Wicki-wicki-wild
Wicki-wild
Wicki-wicki Wild Wild West
Jim West, desperado
Rough rider, no you don't want nada
None of this, six-gunnin this, brother runnin this
Buffalo soldier, look it's like I told ya
Any damsel that's in distress
be outta that dress when she meet Jim West
Rough neck so go check the law and abide
Watch your step or flex and get a hole in your side
Swallow your pride, don't let your lip react
You don't wanna see my hand where my hip be at
With Artemis, from the start of this, runnin the game
James West, tamin the West, so remember the name
Now who ya gonna call?
Not the G.B.s
Now who you gonna call?
G double A.G.

The Wild Wild West

Wick wild wild wild
Wickedy wild wild
Wickedy wick wild wild wild
Wickedy wickedy Wickedy Wickedy


Oops, sorry, got my wicki's mixed up with my wiki's but Will Smith does have a wiki on his wicki's so I guess I'm ok ...

sheez, when I get this goofy, it's definitely time for bed ...

Good night BFS forum
*Good night Troy*
See you tomorrow
*OK, sleep well you handsome witty guy*
OK, you too BFS forum
*I will, thank you*
You're welcome BFS forum
*click, lights out*

[crap, I'm off topic AGAIN] SSSOOORRRRRRRRRYYYYY
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Postby ermeyers on August 14th, 2006, 5:02 am

Luke 11:23
He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

John 16:32
Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
When I die, this verse is going to be on my headstone: 2 Timothy 4:7 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Postby tewest99 on August 14th, 2006, 5:25 am

Hey, don't take things so seriously, really, just having a little fun and feeling REALLY silly tonight. After all it is 3:22 AM :roll:

(really dude, I was just kidding) 8)

-----------------------

In other news, you're a Linux guy, so, which distro do you run?

I'm torn between Fedora and Mandriva ...

Gentoo gets a lot of good reviews but I have yet to try it ...

------------------------
Blessings ...
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Postby ermeyers on August 14th, 2006, 6:41 am

Fedora Core. I'm still using FC-4, because I've basically been destroying things with some of my Perl Module experimentation, before I move over to FC-5. I also started http://perl.wikia.com , and I'm actually having just as much fun with starting that global Wiki community. The Perl Wiki was what originally got me into learning this new Wiki stuff. It really helps me to feel better keeping my brain very busy. There's also an http://christianity.wikia.com , but I haven't gotten involved over there yet, so maybe you want to warn them about me real quick. Other than coming here to learn about BFS symptoms, and to cause your general discontent, I've been learning and contributing to Wikipedia, and I can get in trouble there too. I basically get in trouble everywhere, and I'm real used to it, because we all make mistakes. I simply do my best, to be me. I assume that you're asleep by now, at least I hope you are. Eric
When I die, this verse is going to be on my headstone: 2 Timothy 4:7 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Postby Mark S on August 14th, 2006, 8:24 am

Sorry guys for injecting my rant. It's just that all of this violence seems never to really work...live by the sword and all. When violence is relied upon then you reap it in the end to your own distruction. IMHO.

I think I may have missed something and entered into this thread devoid of enough knowledge to "get it".

BTW - I think you have hard time using 'sword' in a figurative sense in the context of Jesus' list of other items they should take. Perhaps a better interpretation is preparedness.
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Postby ermeyers on August 14th, 2006, 8:59 am

No sword here
Patience and Tolerance
Preparedness and Awareness
Faith and Endurance

PS: A kind spirit, in a very human body.
When I die, this verse is going to be on my headstone: 2 Timothy 4:7 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Postby goblue on August 14th, 2006, 9:39 am

ermeyers, are you leaving or staying?
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Postby tewest99 on August 14th, 2006, 11:44 am

Hi Mark S
Please don't feel bad about injecting your rant. I'm a little apprehensive to continue this thread because I have made a commitment to stay on topic and keep my world view to myself. (Something I hope I can do ;-) )

---
Then Jesus answered, "I am not an earthly king. If I were, my followers would have fought when I was arrested" ...
---
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
---

I seems like Jesus was not interested in fighting, even in self defense. Infact, he was ready to lay down his own life.

Just more support for what I hope that we all agree on is that violence is not the proper course of action and certainly not justified if a person is to claim Christianity as their religion.
---

I know some people on this forum that have the same selfless love for the fellow members. I've seen it many times. I won't name names because I don't want to embarass anyone or pat them on the back. I think they are just doing what comes naturally to them, being loving and kind. I could use a little dose of that myself beings I have failed in that area as of late.

OK, there's my 2 cents and I'd better not say any more...
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Postby basso on August 14th, 2006, 12:11 pm

The difficult thing about extracting phrases from any source, biblical or otherwise is that they lack context. Wow, that is original thinking for you. Bear with me. Every phrase, or even word, can be turned around to mean something quite different. For instance: If you are a skeptic, you could be said to have be a person that assesses things with a cautious mind, or you could just be full of fear, and insecure of new things. An optimist might also be a skeptic, for they are skeptical of all things pessimistic.

Science is also said to ultimate acquiescence to reason, an obedience to common sense. In a sense, science encompasses all, and so everything under and above the sun is scientific in one way or another. The arts, are seen sometimes as anti-science, and yet I suppose we could reduce music to firing brain synapses and acoustical principles that agree. Yet, if we flip this around, all things could be said to be ART. Why should not common sense, and linear thinking also be an art form?

So, tolerance can be an intolerance of sorts. A passive-aggressive stand point that allows other points of view, because it is intolerant of being otherwise. Perhaps patients is just a constrained impetuosity, a harnessing of our powers so that we might achieve the same end, but with less risk.

War of course is about power, power to control one's own destiny, the attempt at halting another's power. So both starting a war, and resisting the warring party is ultimately about the same thing...control; which is power. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, it is the condition in which, as humans, we find ourselves.

Forgiveness means not harbouring any resentment toward someone who has slighted or offended you in some way. However, it is far from a beneficent emotion, for it still may be highly intolerant of the original act, from which it was necessary to forgive in the first place. In this sense, forgiveness must be active, rather than passive.

If Jesus allowed himself to be killed, it was hardly done through passivity. Rather, it was done through the knowledge that his act of death would so transcend the trivial as to render it powerless. He was already in heaven, and so any worldly act was simply that...an act, selfless, or otherwise.

This is tender ground is it not? However, with BFS (yes, now I'm getting around to the Experience of BFS ) there is great healing when one can ask those questions, that seemed so fearful before. Why not? What is there to lose, except your spirit. There is no harm in the question, just in the not asking of it in the first place. For that is a place of fear, a place that will abide no contradiction, and fear is the greatest lie of all.

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Postby ermeyers on August 14th, 2006, 12:24 pm

Can I say a little Amen before I leave,

Well said Basso, and to all. Panic, Fear, Anxiety, even some intolerance, are real enemies that we must fight with together to maintain our health. Peace is a pretty good objective, and Jesus was a pretty good model. There were other models that I liked, but I really like Jesus being God, because that makes me feel very comfortable with his power.

goblue, the answer is Yes. Bye

PS: Jesus never asked me to find a way to die for him; instead, he simply asked me to find the way to live with him and for him.
When I die, this verse is going to be on my headstone: 2 Timothy 4:7 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Postby tewest99 on August 14th, 2006, 4:35 pm

If Jesus allowed himself to be killed, it was hardly done through passivity. Rather, it was done through the knowledge that his act of death would so transcend the trivial as to render it powerless. He was already in heaven, and so any worldly act was simply that...an act, selfless, or otherwise.



Although I agree with you in part, His act was acted out in humanity. If it were not a struggle for Him, He would not have prayed in the garden that His Father take the cup from Him. I believe that Jesus could not see past the cross but had to endure it with the same faith that a Christian person lives by on a daily basis as the basis of their salvation.

This is strictly my personal view.

Basso, your writing is elequent and challenges me to think in ways that I never have before. I would love to just sit down and have a cup of coffee with you and chat it up for hours.

Take Care,

Troy
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