Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

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Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby BFSBurger on July 2nd, 2013, 5:24 pm

Referring to those moments where you seriously freak out. Usually health related. The sheer terror, fear, etc. You feel your pulse rise rapidly, your face gets hot, and your head begins to hurt. You feel the butterflies in the stomach times 100, and it shoots through you. The episode may last an hour or two. Maybe an afternoon or a full evening. Pumping adrenaline, and cortisol through your veins like a poisonous concoction hellbent on ruining yourself ....

Not referring to short ones that last only a few minutes. Referring to those episodes that last a half a day, or longer.

Those events, if you have had them ....

After everything calms down intellectually, do you find that you struggle for days and days with fatigue? Almost a flu-like malaise that you just can't shake for quite some time?

The one or two times I have had such freakouts since this started, this is what happened. I can ruin myself for a week or two with such events. And they are always characterized with feeling like I am sick with the Flu. I didn't remember this being a hallmark of anyone here, so I wanted to ask about it. Yes im sure we've all dealth with Fatigue. But when you knock yourself down during an "acute" episode like that, its very peculiar that flu-like syndrome would ensue. I have my theories about this. Which tie in to immune system activity or viral activity of course. Was recently reading a study showing that brain inflammation skyrockets during acute stress episodes, due to something called a "cytokine storm". While its typical to state that the immune system becomes weaker with stress, in fact they've shown that stress can set off a flood of cytokines which directly cause brain inflammation. Found that interesting and wondered if it related.
-B-
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby muppetdog on July 2nd, 2013, 8:26 pm

That is interesting.

I have had times when I have blown myself out and it has lasted for weeks. Just recently I finished finals and "Perfect Stormed" myself which led to 5 days of unexplained fatigue. I was under a lot of pressure with the tests and did not get enough sleep for a couple days and BAM! For me it seems to start with more buzzing and twitching in my legs and my body starts to get kind of this vibration/can't get comfortable awful feeling. I then start to wake up day after day even after sleeping for 7 to 9 hours feeling that I am just blown away. My mind is just tired, my body feels tired, like I was lifting weights the day before and I just want to go back to sleep. Most of the time I can't sleep after I have woken up though. after that I will myself upstairs, eat something, then its back to the basement for a day or two, or five, of Netflix on the couch. My muscles, during this time, get really easily fatigued - like brushing your teeth makes your arm sore like you were doing dumbbell curls. I also get these weird migrating short lived (10 sec to 2 min) pains that wonder all over my body but I can never pinpoint when I go looking for them. And I just get overall malaise. At times like this in the past I could have sworn I had a temperature, but when I take it it's dead on normal. Oh, I also get these little pinpoint flashes in my vision here and there, I really had this - not like the "growing electric snake" you get from an aural migraine but just like a small camera goes of ever so once in a while.

All this usually lasts a day or so then slowly I regain some normalcy where feel I can start to be more active and get off the couch.

I don't know if that is sort of like what you experience. I don't get panic attacks like you explained but a certain amount of stress, lack of sleep and other factors can do it. It is one of my most feared things to have happen because I have not found a way, yet, to pull myself out of that fatigued state once I get there. It has lead to me living life about 70%.

Now I know I don't have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or anything like that because recently I went to California for 3 weeks just to kick back and was able to run, swim and be incredible active to a point no one with CFS could be. Just reading about any of the people on Phoenix Rising or in any of the CFS books I have read I can come to this conclusion.

I have never had any inflammatory markers of any type to indicate an ongoing infection with any blood test I have had (all of them). I Have had numerous T and B cell flow cytometry tests which have never shown anything but low CD57 natural killer cell counts.

I know you had mentioned earlier that one of your doctors said you had and active cytomegalovirus infection? (I know that 40-80% of all people in the US will show Igg antibodies for this but most of the time it is asymptomatic,) You also tested positive for Coxsackie b entrovirus? could that not be what you could be aggravating? Did you not also say that you had high Lymphocytes and CD4a counts? Does that not indicate and ongoing infection? What did the docs say at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine tell you?

Oh, just for curiosity sake, did you get a killer cell function test when you were there? I think it measures that ability for your white blood cells to cary out the apoptosis process. I know there have been studies in Australia that have show that to be a bio marker for CFS (not saying that is what you have, since the modern medical geniuses don't even know what the hell CFS is :)

Anyway, To sum up. I have never had a health anxiety panic attack blow me out for weeks but I have done it to myself with other stuff. Its F%$king frustrating when it happens.

Just thought I would yak a bit.

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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby Yuliasir on July 2nd, 2013, 9:52 pm

I had experienced various post-effects: from immediate fatigue to severest ever bout of urticaria (up to Quinke edema) next day.
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby BFSBurger on July 2nd, 2013, 10:15 pm

muppetdog wrote:I then start to wake up day after day even after sleeping for 7 to 9 hours feeling that I am just blown away. My mind is just tired, my body feels tired, like I was lifting weights the day before and I just want to go back to sleep. Most of the time I can't sleep after I have woken up though. after that I will myself upstairs, eat something, then its back to the basement for a day or two, or five, of Netflix on the couch. My muscles, during this time, get really easily fatigued - like brushing your teeth makes your arm sore like you were doing dumbbell curls. I also get these weird migrating short lived (10 sec to 2 min) pains that wonder all over my body but I can never pinpoint when I go looking for them. And I just get overall malaise. At times like this in the past I could have sworn I had a temperature, but when I take it it's dead on normal.

You just nailed exactly what I am talking about, perfectly. Dead on. That's exactly what happens to me, right down to every single detail.
I have been trying to get a mental grip on exactly what it feels like, and it is so hard to describe. Its almost a "feverish" feeling that you get with the flu, but not quite. There's an extreme sensation of "weakness" and "insufficiency" but ... impossible to quantify. You can still open containers and do everything as normal. Its basically a flu-ish feeling I guess. But even my skin feels strange. Hot. But not hot .... so weird.

It is one of my most feared things to have happen because I have not found a way, yet, to pull myself out of that fatigued state once I get there. It has lead to me living life about 70%.

When this all began, after taking medications which can cause immune system inflammation, I would have monthly bouts of this. Before BFS started. This was my symptom. I totally get the sensation you have about fearing it. And for the exact same reason. Because you know once its there, you simply can't shake it. Nothing you do helps. Exercise, eating more carbs, sleeping more. Nothing. Its just there, and it stays, until it wants to go away. For me it typically took 3 to 6 days of extremely slow motion lifestyle and a lot of rest. Then it simply disappears. Goes away. Strength returns. Vitality is back. Whatever was "on" has now been turned "off".

I have never had any inflammatory markers of any type to indicate an ongoing infection with any blood test I have had (all of them). I Have had numerous T and B cell flow cytometry tests which have never shown anything but low CD57 natural killer cell counts.

Crazy! So you have had the immune function tests? Did they do the "IL" tests for you? IL-2, IL-17, IL-6, etc? I would be interested in comparing notes sometime on those. I got mine back but I've been hold off on posting the results here until I have a better talk with Dr Klimas and Rey about them. But my Natural Killer cells are high right now. Implies viral infection or ... well ... that other thing.

I know you had mentioned earlier that one of your doctors said you had and active cytomegalovirus infection? (I know that 40-80% of all people in the US will show Igg antibodies for this but most of the time it is asymptomatic,) You also tested positive for Coxsackie b entrovirus? could that not be what you could be aggravating? Did you not also say that you had high Lymphocytes and CD4a counts? Does that not indicate and ongoing infection? What did the docs say at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine tell you?

I had positive IGM for CMV which means its current. In fact I'm the one who thought to test for it, not my doctors. I have been watching the CMV IGM numbers go from very High to lower and lower... as I have begun to feel better and better. Likewise the IGG numbers have gone from very low, to extremely high, as my body has successfully built immunity to CMV, I assume for the first time? I cant imagine that CMV would cause all of this, and I am not sure if reactivation causes IGM antibodies, but watching the numbers sure has looked like an initial infection for me. Coxsackie is negative across the board for IGM ... but my Cox A came back extremely high titers (1:1600) on the IGG. There is some debate going on right now as to whether high IGG titers mean chronic, ongoing relapsing reactivations. I'll post more about this after my meeting with the Klimas clinic tomorrow.

-B-
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby Syz on July 3rd, 2013, 7:23 pm

I get this way as well. I can usually tell it's coming when my vision begins to darken, I start to get muscle aches like I have the flu, I sweat, I get extremely fatigued, and then I'm just down for the count. I had to leave work early today "sick with the flu" because how else can I explain it? It usually lasts about a week for me.

In addition to what you guys stated, I also get pretty severe pain under my right rib cage and get terrible diarrhea. It's as though my liver is dumping bile and cholesterol out of my system. Nothing I do seems to help. I avoid fatty foods and stock up on desitin.

The hardest part is the weakness/fatigue. I also get terrible neck and headaches when this happens. My joints stiffen up and I get very rigid movements. It sucks.

I'm in one right now, but I'm planning to golf tomorrow anyway.
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby BFSBurger on July 3rd, 2013, 10:52 pm

Syz wrote:I also get pretty severe pain under my right rib cage

Yep. That was my first symptom with the fatigue, before BFS kicked in months later. Rib cage aching under my arms. I got it on both sides. Always at the same time that I had the fatigue bouts. Totally stumped doctors. I never could figure out if it was swollen glands under my armpits (that I just couldn't feel?) or what ... but it really bothered me when it came. And both would go away together as well. Same as you though - headaches and stiff neck and muscles. Sometimes painful spine. Definitely some sort of acute inflammation going on. Maybe cytokine storm ... :)
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby Spider on July 4th, 2013, 2:25 pm

That's it .

My rib cage under my left arm would ache like hell for days also
Then the really stiff neck and painful spine base of the kneck.
It has to be some kind of Inflammation .
Quite incredible to know this could be linked to BFS.
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

Postby BFSBurger on July 4th, 2013, 3:36 pm

Spider wrote:Quite incredible to know this could be linked to BFS.

Well BFS isn't a thing, really. So anything can be linked to it ... technically.
Especially when (as I believe) many things can cause BFS, and therefore present a little differently in different people.
Its comforting to know that others have similar symptoms though. This tells me there's some consistency, and consistency, taken all the way to the end ... can identify the true cause.
If anyone were actually researching this.

These types of symptoms being linked to BFS fit quite well with the viral / bacterial / fungal (Pathogen) ..... Immune system inflammation .... theories.
BFS mimicks Fibromyalgia too so its very possible that's what these pains are.
Just that transient fibro before transient arthritis and then transient ALS and then transient MS .... welcome to the life of a BFSer :)

I constantly bounce back and forth between the various theories, but it feels good that I've whittled it down to just a few.
Many here just believe its anxiety, and I am not able to limit it to that. Its just too insidious and all-ecompassing.
Not to mention it mimicks symptoms of very severe neurological and autoimmune diseases. I can't fathom that this is just stress.
So the whole spine pain reminds me of Cerebral Spinal Fluid inflammation / brain inflammation seen in numerous other disorders.
Of course muscle aching could be anything but often seen in pathogen infection. However its also a hallmark of immune system elevation.
When you get the flu and feel like hell - that isnt the flu virus. Its your immune system.
First thing that happens to me when I get the flu, is my back hurting. That's how I know my immune system is acting up.
So something is out of whack.
How I resolved my BFS within 1 year of onset:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19128
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Re: Do you get Fatigue after Anxiety?

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