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Re: Possible cure?

PostPosted: October 12th, 2013, 6:24 pm
by SecretAgentMan
yaumno wrote:I like your attitude SecretAgentMan but I would like to respectfully disagree with you on a few points.

First, I dislike the phrase, "alternative medicine," simply because it betrays itself. An effective treatment is effective. An "alternative" is therefore, by definition, ineffective. It is an unfortunate problem in medical nomenclature that older forms of medical treatment are referred to in this way. However, many types of older (read: eastern, alternative, no-longer-in-use) treatments are indeed ineffective, or at the very least, the reasons for performing them are incorrect. Let's take acupuncture as an example. This practice has been used as medicine since about 200 b.c. and is based on the theory that "qi" is a form of energy flowing through the body, interruptions in this flow can be rectified with needling. Now we know that the theory of "qi" is entirely incorrect, however, numerous controlled studies have shown acupuncture to be moderately effective in reducing chronic pain. This effectiveness is most likely due to distraction or the placebo effect but, if it is effective under certain circumstances then, by all means continue.

Second, BFS is - by its name - a syndrome. This simply means that it is a collection of signs, symptoms, and phenomena occurring together. As with any syndrome there may exist a single cause, or many different causes. I strongly believe that BFS falls into the latter category. My BFS began immediately following an electrical injury, others attribute their BFS to a virus or drug, and still others attribute their BFS to anxiety. What I mean to say is that BFS is merely a name given to the collection of symptoms caused by some underlying disease process. Unfortunately for us, and to the dismay of many members of this site, the underlying cause remains unknown.

Therefore, some cases (those caused by a drug therapy or anxiety) may be curable while others (those caused by a virus, genetic factors, or trauma) may not. Personally I believe that most cases of BFS have a specific biological cause that our incomplete neurological knowledge has yet been unable to identify. My readings into electrical injury have revealed to me that electricity can produce structural and functional changes in the anterior horn cells of the spinal cord and other authors have suggested that these cells may be implicated in BFS and CFS too. I am currently working on compiling my thoughts and readings into a few documents to publish online for public viewing and discussion. My university affiliation affords me access to almost every online scientific journal so I will also be able to include copies of the readings I have used to reach these thoughts (as long as the authors allow me to do so).

I sincerely hope that my ideas do not irritate you in any way, I am only posting them here to promote informed discussion. I am analytical by nature and sometimes my tone can turn people off. Also, I have read some of your other posts and you seem to be a proponent of alternative treatments. Which ones are you interested in, besides acupuncture, and what have you learned that made them seem efficacious or attractive?

Thanks yaumno for the the honest and respectful response. I took no offense because I myself am very analytical (I'm an engineer) and didn't arrive where I am today very easily nor quickly. Basically I know where you are coming from. Getting to where I am today was a gradual process where I had to get here at my own pace. I will offer some clarification on your points from my perspective, and also to answer your questions. Take this for what you will.

Regarding the phrase 'alternative medicine', I do agree that it really all should be lumped into the category of medicine. I believe it is just a collectively agreed to term to capture healing modalities and techniques that fall outside of the organized and structured pharmaceutical driven approach that is predominant in western culture. I don't think it is intended to mean that these modalities and techniques are alternative TO medicine but rather that they are alternative FORMS OF medicine. Similar to how you can pick alternate routes on your car's GPS navigation to arrive at a set destination, if 'wellness' is the set destination then 'alternative (forms of) medicine' just take you a different route than the most popular and heavily driven roads to get there.

I actually also disagree with your absolute statement about the theory of "qi" (or Chi) being entirely incorrect. There is actually quite a bit of scientific research and work being done in the field of acupuncture. For one example, it was discovered in the 20th century that the uniform surface of our skin, which conducts electricity, does not conduct electricity uniformly. It was discovered that the resistance dropped significantly at certain 'points' along the skin and these points were consistent (mirrored) from the right side to left side and also consistent (in the same locations) from person to person. These 'points' matched exactly with the Chinese acupuncture points that have been mapped and in use for thousands of years. You can actually purchase a home use electronic acupuncture pen that detects these points such as this one for example: ... 0437101426

The ancient Chinese found and mapped these acupuncture points by 'feeling' the energy (or Chi, qi, ka, prana, or whatever else you want to call it). They didn't have modern electronic devices or technology like we do today to find and map these points. Acupuncture is taught at a majority of the most prominent medical schools in the world, including here in the United States. The United States military did extensive testing and trialing before finally adopting it in the year 2008 for pain management. They are currently studying the use of acupuncture for expanding its use to treat Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) through the Department of Veteran Affairs with very favorable initial results. Read information on this here: ... 051711.cfm

I understand the reservations with the concept of invisible energy. I had to experience some level of success despite my skepticism before I would even humor the concept that there was something that I couldn't see, measure, or quantify at work behind the scenes helping to influence my health. The more I researched it with an open mind and learned about it though, the more it actually made sense to my logical and analytical side. I had to first shift though from 'refusing to believe' to simply 'not wanting to believe'. At least in 'not wanting to believe' you can open your mind to the possibility that you don't know everything and information you may have been crucial to adding more pieces to the puzzle in helping you understand the big picture. An open mind doesn't mean naiveté where you believe everything. It simply means you are open to new information despite your personal biases.

Regarding BFS, I agree with you that it is a syndrome that basically takes people with a collection of common symptoms and lumps them into a category. Not enough information is known to be certain for a specific cause or multiple causes. The only thing people really can agree on for the most part here is that reducing stress and anxiety helps ease the severity of symptoms. The rest is up for debate from people with widely varying perspectives and experiences. I personally have come to believe that the mind has far more power over us than most of us give it credit for. As such I believe that a diagnosis can have detrimental affects on people. There are multiple documented cases of people who were mis-diagnosed with cancer and were so impacted by the news that they actually developed symptoms, real cancer where there was none before, and some even died. In some cases, by the time the mixed test results were straightened out it was too late. In other cases where it was not too late, the people mis-diagnosed magically got better and had the symptoms disappear as quickly as they came.

I'm a fan of the movie 'The Matrix'. In the movie Morpheus is walking with Neo in the training program they have and Neo asks Morpheus "If you die in the Matrix, do you die in real life?" Morpheus answers "Yes, your mind makes it real." Although it's just a movie quote, I believe there is a lot of truth in this. I'm actually reading a book right now that talks about the power and the depth of the placebo affect. Beyond just sugar pills there are studies that were done on the placebo affect using real medications. One of the studies they took multiple people and split them into two rooms. They told people in room A that they were being given a sleeping pill, but in actuality they only gave most of them a sleeping pill and one or two people actually got real stimulants. In room B they told everyone they were being given stimulants, but in actuality they only gave most of them a stimulant and one or two people actually got sleeping pills. The results were intriguing. Overwhelmingly the people who were given stimulants in the sleeping pill room fell asleep with ease. Similarly in the room where people were mostly given stimulants, even the people given sleeping pills could not sleep. There were many other interesting studies referenced that paint a picture that the mind is indeed far more powerful than many of us are led to believe. I think that this power can take hold of us when we are given a diagnosis of a syndrome such as BFS. Many people can and do become the disease they are told they have. This is one of the reasons I do not really like the placebo affect being used to dismiss success. I believe it is critical for success, but I do not believe it is the only contributing factor either.

So, in my studies, research, and first hand experience I have arrived at the belief that our energy is very much a part of or connected to our mind. I use the word mind to describe that aspect of our conscious awareness, not to be confused with the brain, the hub of the central nervous system. There are many studies in the area of the mind and brain as well. One aspect that continues to elude modern neuroscience is the inability to locate memories stored in the brain. For example, early in the research of brain surgery (while the patient was still awake) they found that they could electrically stimulate different areas of the brain and each time evoke specific memories consistently. This initially led researchers to believe that memories were locally stored in different areas of the brain. Later research revealed however that when portions of the brain were removed due to tumors or injury, memories of events triggered by probing the removed areas of the brain did not disappear. This phenomenon still perplexes scientists who believe the mind and the brain are one in the same. This is merely one example that makes the case for a non-local mind.

There are other unexplained phenomenon that suddenly become explainable when you factor in energy and its contentedness to a non-local mind. Some examples include walking into a room where you just know or can feel that people were fighting even though you had witnessed no audio or visual evidence to suggest as such, the feeling of being stared at from across a crowded room only to turn around and immediately lock eyes with the person doing the staring, thinking of someone just before they call you, or even knowing someone you care about is in trouble when they are miles away. I believe that people who are incredibly intuitive are in reality just good at reading energy. Quantum physics has already demonstrated to us that all points in time and space are connected. We can 'entangle' particles and see 'spooky action at a distance' but where does that boundary between quantum and macro really exist? To what extent do our beliefs, thoughts, and emotions really influence the reality we experience?

Personally I believe that conventional medicine handles chronic illness and syndromes so poorly because it refuses to acknowledge the existence of this energy. When it comes to the power of the mind (the placebo affect), rather than try to capitalize on it or exploit it they dismiss it and then use it explain away success in other areas other than pharmaceuticals. A vast majority of the doctors may not even realize they are doing this, because they are just doing what they were trained to do. My brother is a doctor who when to the University of Michigan. It was a very impressive campus and right across the street was an equally impressive Phizer campus. Medical schools are funded and heavily influenced by the pharmaceutical industry. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there is a multi-billion dollar industry with a self serving interest at stake for any medical techniques that don't work in their favor.

OK, so this is turning rather lengthy. To answer your questions I mostly worked with a doctor who was mainly an acupuncturist, but they were skilled in many other healing techniques aligned with Chinese medicine. He is very tuned in to energy and most of the techniques at his disposal worked with this energy in different ways. Using bio-feedback techniques they can tell what foods, products, supplements, etc you are allergic to, toxic to, or deficient in. I got off or was cleared of the stuff I was allergic to, replaced toxic stuff with good stuff, and took only the necessary supplements that addressed my deficiencies. His wife is a chiropractor and therefore their services included chiropractic adjustments as well. Although I utilized these services some, most of my work was either energetic or nutritional. Along the way I got to a point where I was about 95% better but no matter what we did I could not get over the last 5%. I would have minor twitching flare ups, but nothing anywhere near what I used to have in my BFS prime. I wanted them all gone though. I knew this stuff was doing me good, but didn't know why these few minor problems were still hanging on. It was at this point that I tried one of my doctor's recommended colleagues out who did more emotional work as it pertains to your energy. After only 4 sessions with him, the other 5% was solved and taken care of. I won't go into much detail here because this is already long enough.

I don't expect this to make sense to all of you, let alone many of you. I realize how hard some of this can be to fathom when you come from the perspective of fully believing in the marvels of modern (conventional) medicine. Energy just does not compute at first. I guarantee you though that if you are open minded and actually seriously humor the concept for a while, start to put different aspects of it to the test, and base your conclusions off of your OWN experiences and not the editorials of other skeptics, you will find there is more to it than you may have thought. I don't expect anyone to take my word for it. I had to go out and get some first hand experience myself and put it to the test to arrive where I am now. It's hard to write up a few paragraphs to try to convey such a complicated and vast subject while trying not to lose anyone. I hope I didn't fail miserably... Hopefully this made some sense. Thanks for reading and let me know if there are any questions.

Re: Possible cure?

PostPosted: October 18th, 2013, 5:43 pm
by ag2002
I like the discussion. Everyone here has BFS for different reasons. However, reducing stress and the way you percieve BFS will help in symptom relief. Since my BFS began I have gone to a psychiatrist. He will tell you like he was taught by big pharma that I have a chemical imbalance that is causing anxiety, etc. Well what came first the anxiety or the chemical imbalance? I believe the anxiety came first because of my thought processes which caused chemical, physiological and all sorts of other changes and imbalances. These anxious thought patterns didn't happen overnight and it won't change overnight. The point I am trying to make is that the mind is extremely powerful and the thoughts we think can put us in our own prison or set us free. I am a Christian and throughout the New Testament Jesus says do not worry. He said this for a reason. Worry is the thought of percieved future harm that you cannot control. I can mentally understand that concept, but it is another thing to actually not worry. We have to work through our worries. The website has helped me and I just wanted to share it with others. Hope everyone recieves healing. God bless.

In Chist,