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hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 2nd, 2012, 7:40 pm
by marconi
Hello, need your opinion about:

on the first picture is my hand - relaxed.
Image

Here is same hand when i stretch my thumb, can you notice atrophy that comes out?
Image

I have some pains in my hands and occasional twitching. I can also notice less muscelar arches on my right leg..

I described all my problems in the http://nextination.com/aboutbfs/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17799&p=132667&hilit=+need+opinion+about#p132667, but to sum up:

My twitching doesnt stop:
- calves and arches constant - visible but not feel them
- random in the arms, sometimes also in my left hand (palm)
- random in the legs thight (both sides)
- random back, neck, stomach
- left eyelid

To sum up other symptoms:
- occasional pain in legs, foot, arms (most of time in right side of the body)
- occasional vibrating feeling in my thights
- pain in palms
- night numbness in my arms, leg (not every night, but few times a week)
- some digestion problems
- less muscular right calf and thight compared to left
- visible pulse in my neck - constant neck movement
- some problems with swallowing, but i could say they are from strees, because when i dont think about it i swallow normally.

Thanks for your opinions.
Regards,

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 2nd, 2012, 9:19 pm
by wjjw
Mine has the same "dent" when I stretch it. Sorry but its not atrophy "coming out" it's a normal thenar muscle.

Cheers,
Bill

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 2nd, 2012, 10:38 pm
by colls22
I don't have a camera handy, but if I could take a picture, you would see that my left hand looks exactly like yours. And I had the same fear. I was assured by the doctor that it was not atrophy. I believe it's just a prominent thenar muscle. Nothing to worry about at all.

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 2nd, 2012, 11:30 pm
by Yuliasir
Hi my friend,
first of all, considering the position of your thumb on the second photo I may assume you have hypermobile thumb joint. In that case your muscle is absolutely perfectly normal and veird position is caused only due to hypermobility. I have that on my left thumb (not on right hand), and believe me, when i stretch my thumb in a way like yours, I have even more prominent and strange pattern.

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 3rd, 2012, 5:56 am
by raindog
You should really looking at the other side

This is what atrophy looks like in a MND....notice the area around the thumb now.

http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/63/2/257/F1.large.jpg

Weakness , lack of dexterity will be very apparent when you start noticing real atrophy.

Your hand looks in very good health and my best advice is not to obsess and feed your anxiety.

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 3rd, 2012, 9:00 am
by chrissi

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 4th, 2012, 2:40 am
by Jonny32
Of course the atrophy on this MND picture is very prominent and obvious.
But how can I be sure, that my hand is not in early stage of atrophy?
An ALS hand surely does not look like the one on the picture in the beginning.
I think we all know this. And thats the problem. How do I know that my
hand is not going to develop like the one on the picture.
Does the hand have to be weak in case of atrophy? Even in the beginning?
Or is there yet enough strenght cause the muscle is yet big enough?

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 4th, 2012, 5:47 am
by jerry2
Well, if I don't lie... you can not be sure! You can not be sure this moment there will be no earth quake that will collapse the place where you are right now. You can not be sure. Life is a jurney not a destination.

But...

In ALS progress of atrophy is VERY FAST. Few weeks usually. Weakness usually comes before atrophy or soon after. Fasciculations come later. Most ALS patients come because of weakness, not because of dent or atrophy.
Everybody who pays attention sees things he didn't see xy years before because he wan't focused on it.

My story: My neuro told me my left hand has atrophy in the muscles of thenar and between fingers in palm. Because I have very visible tendons on this hand and I have like 1/2 of the muscle bulk only compared to right hand. If I measure the left palm around it is 1.5 cm less than right palm. I can post you picture if you want. Some other neuro on the net when I posted picture said to me the difference is PROMINENT. So let's make this clear: Whether this is atrophy is debatable, seems like it, but there is prominent difference between the hands and neuro suspects atrophy. Now please focus not on the fact that it might be atrophy or it might not, focus please on something else:

I first noticed the tendons when I had neuro symptoms in it, not before. WHen I compared the hands I could see the difference even before neuro told me what he did. So the hand has much less muscle. That's a fact. And I would be prepared to dia at that time that it should have happened in a week or so. THere was no way for me to accept I could be having this kind of hand and not noticing it. Never! I am good at noticing small diferences in my body, I would surely see the hands are different. Now listen to this: I am not sure if the difference is 100% the same, but I have found some old photo (almost 2 years old) where my hand is visible. There seems to be so much less bulk and the visible tendons as today! I can not tell if it is the same, but it looks the same. And I have NEVER NOTICED IT!!! Because I wasn't focusing. I could not belive myself!

To end the story, this picture saved my sanity, because as the second neuro told me over the net, the difference is prominent, but as this difference seemed to be there for 2 years, this excludes the motor neuron disease. You just can't have atrophy 2 years without progress in MND. This picture saved my sanity over this. I am still thinking I have more difference than 10 months ago but I probobly don't, it0s just my mind playing on me again. In ALS I wouln't have to wonder if the difference is more, it would be a fact.

The moral of this true story of mine is: Don't underestimate what a feared individual can see in him/her, that has been there for ever or at least for many years before.

This is the picture and the comparision of my "atrophy": http://www.shrani.si/f/2W/io/2UdKQN0o/hand.png It will take me another year to believe this is not progressing, but... one day I may even laugh at it. DON'T EXAMINE YOUR LIMBS WITHOUT WEAKNESS!!!

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 4th, 2012, 4:34 pm
by korikos
That is definitely not atrophy Marconi, nothing to do with atrophy. Stop examining your limbs and go, get drunk, grab some women, lay down, enjoy your life.

Re: hand atrophy

PostPosted: August 7th, 2012, 2:53 pm
by angusglover
Been here.....done this.....it's NOT ALS...move on. Trust me on this...MOVE ON...